White Roborovskis

This is the place to discuss how current genes work and also any new mutations, new colours or unusual appearances.

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Re: White Roborovskis

Postby Nella » Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:15 pm

Yes, I will do that as soon as my computer is back (there was something wrong with the videocart, but I hope to have it back as soon as possible). I will also post some pictures of Silver and Pandora, my two oldest dominant huskies and also of Tramp, my platinum male (got him when he was almost 1 year old, at that time he was already a bit lighter than normal husky, but from the pictures of his breeder from when he was born I think he was also a dominant husky).
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Re: White Roborovskis

Postby Ed.C. » Mon Feb 15, 2010 12:39 am

Here's an update on the pups, they are still growing well, the largest being the white male. Also their backs have now developed pigment. This you can see on their underfur; the base of the hairshafts being dark to about the half way point, then white to the hair tip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1-krSCX7ug

ps. No more pups at the present as I separated mum from dad after some major squabbling, although I will try mating her again after she's had a rest. Also the little runt has grown quite a bit and his fur has gone back to normal!

Ed
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Re: White Roborovskis

Postby Nella » Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:52 pm

Ahh, they are gorgeous! But I must say that they don't look really white. More like platinum. Could it be that these hamsters are dominant husky plus one recessive husky gene, but platinum or white-factor is showing directly from birth? They look a lot like my platinum male... but he became almost completely white when he was 1 year old.

I really should find some pictures... will post it in a new topic. I'll post pictures of my platinum male, but also my dominant and recessive husky-young.
---> POSTED A SEPARATE THREAD

By the way: when I looked at your youtubefilm I noticed the white one turnes counterclockwise! Is he/she doing that very often? One of my white females does the same and I see that as 'not-healthy'. It is not yet spinning, but he/she will probably get it at older age. That female did the same when she was younger, but now it is more like spinning. My other female and male are a lot better (no turning). The spinning female didn't produce any young by the way... never placed here with a vertile male.
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Re: White Roborovskis

Postby Ed.C. » Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:35 pm

Lol, he was actually looking frantically for his wheel! It's attached to the roof of the tank and I had to remove that to film them. Also remember they are on artificial lighting and I had removed them out of their normal dark cycle to take some natural light photos. So that definitely agitates them as well.

I mentioned to Tammy that I had given them both hearing and seizure tests. Although both have normal hearing, the smaller white showed some ear flicking, which indicates that their seizure threshold may be a little lower than normal robos. However a second seizure test (3 weeks later) showed them both as normal.

As for them looking like your platinum, well this again I notice as well, and why I mention that there's several genes and gene combinations that can make Black-Eyed White animals. However with your theory the platinums are a result of fading, and these, like you say, are white from birth, then gain some pigment, although they are born with dark ear pigment. So I doubt it is that gene combination.

When they are born, they have a definite dark ear pigment. It seems much more prominent than the ones in the photos that you've showed me. Also as they mature, their undercoat in the dorsal region begins to get pigment as well. I took a few photos to show you what I mean;

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Also, and what has been an even bigger surprise to me is another recent cross I've done. To test your theory out I decided to buy a pair of whiteface/husky robos. These I obtained from another pet shop in Manchester but a great distance away from my normal shop where I bought the white robo. Anyway these have recently had a litter, but the litter is far from what I expected! The pups seem to be in two different shades (one more dilute than the other) also there are two white robos in there. The whites in this litter seem to look much more similar to the white ones that you have showed me in your photos. They don't seem the same as my other white robos. Maybe it is these that you are breeding in Holland?

I took a few pics, they're not the greatest, but they were moving around like crazy!

Image

Image

Image

Image

Ed
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Re: White Roborovskis

Postby Tammy - Oak Farm » Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:09 pm

Wow Ed!! those photos are very interesting!!

I can clearly see the lighter ones - they have an almost orangy appearance, a very strange colour, but i havent see any of the new Rust / Cinnamon robos at a young age, only adults, so maybe this is a similar colour?? Do they have black eyes?

It is strange to have three different colours in one litter, but even the 'white' pups dont actually look completely white like your other white pups - these do have a sort of band of pigment across their backs, very strange!

Do you have pics of the parents of this litter?

Thanks for posting :)

Tammy x
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Re: White Roborovskis

Postby Ed.C. » Tue Feb 23, 2010 8:33 pm

LOL, all I wanted was some husky pups to test this white robo line with!

These were in two tanks and all were husky, so I just picked the nicest looking! There is a little shade difference in the two adults but I put that down to natural variation of the fur. I'll try getting some pics again of them all this week, but the female is rather elusive while she's nursing and stays mostly in her nestbox.

TBH, when I first saw the pups I compared them to Nellas litter and noticed the two shades of husky looking a little similar, so I thought maybe this is dom husky? Anyway's a real surprise! I'm just glad I bred them on and checked their genetics before attempting to cross them to my own white robo line.

Ed
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Re: White Roborovskis

Postby Ed.C. » Fri Feb 26, 2010 10:45 pm

Update as promised :)

Ok, they are just opening their eyes in the video. There's two normal or wild colour, two whiteface, and two err... peach coloured lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1v_jlVRlCM

Ed
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Re: White Roborovskis

Postby Nella » Sat Feb 27, 2010 9:03 am

They look really strange. Don't know what colour that is, indeed a bit peach like :P.

But what I was wondering... why are you buying in petshops? Especially when you get these strange colours, it seems to me that all these robo's are from one breeder. These colours are not normal, but they appear that easily for you. It is very nice to get these colours, but when you said you wanted to test my theory I would at least expect you to buy from a breeder so that you know the background (parents and so on). This way you are not testing, but experimenting? Or am I wrong?

My whites have also a darker undercoat.. the same as yours.. but my platinum has that as well.. The topcoat is white.
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Re: White Roborovskis

Postby Ed.C. » Sat Feb 27, 2010 4:05 pm

Yes it's an odd colour isn't it. At first when I saw the three shades appearing I thought it looked very similar to your own white robo breeding line, and assumed the peach tinge would dissapear as they aged, but instead it's still quite visible!

Well why buying in pet shops? Well firstly, the white robo line was actually an early xmas present off a friend. I did originally want some husky robos as I've wanted them for years but never got around to owning any. My original intention was to allow a litter or two, then split, and just enjoy having them as pets! However as you can see they weren't husky, and as a person who writes about, documents, and investigates new mutants that appear in other species, I guess I was that little bit curious as to what it was that was causing the white coat!

As for this latest pair, I figured that by the time I actually got a pair of whiteface/husky from any breeder, which would probably be months away at the earliest, I could easily breed a fairly stable line of my own. After all, even if I obtained a pair from a breeder, by the time I had then quarantined, and then produced offspring and looked at the genes appearing to see if it bred true, we are still looking at a considerable time span before any test crosses between the two breeding lines happen.

I seriously doubt these come from the same breeder. The white robo I mentioned came from one of my regular supplies shops and was an accidental litter. I've been in since, and even spoke to the owner but no more have appeared on the horizon.

The new pair, again here I know the circumstances as the breeder works on the premises! Incidentally, they've not seen that peach colour appear in their own litters either. As to what it is, who knows?

Testing and experimenting can be rather similar, but rest assured when I do test cross one of the normals from the white robo line it will be to a robo that is 100% homozygous whiteface, otherwise there's no point in attempting the cross in the first place.

I guess you could say I was just very unlucky as I expected 100% whiteface in this cross, or you could say I was extremely lucky in getting a totally new coat colour. I guess it depends on how you look at things! ;)

I'll keep you updated on how these peach offspring progress. :)
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Re: White Roborovskis

Postby Ed.C. » Fri Mar 05, 2010 11:45 pm

Just a quick update :D All the pups are doing well now. The two white face types differ a bit in coat colour, and as the peach ones have grown a little I've noticed their coats are now fading to a cream or off-white colour, although it's hard to capture the shade on film. I'm just wondering if any dark undercoat will appear as they age?

Anyway here's a vid from a couple of days ago;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTg080EzkWw

Ed
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